PG

If I read everything correctly:
The Rec fishermen can keep fluke 19" and above.
The commercial boats can keep fluke 14" and above.

At what point in time does the fluke resource consist of fish less then 19" effectively shutting off fluke for the rec guys?

I could not find the legislative comments on this does anyone know the logic behind this ?

PG

Possum

Logic and fisheries management cannot go in the same sentence, paragraph, or even book. The Fluke fishery is in major trouble and the dragger's are simply destroying it, permanently. I am not anti commercial, but this continued decimation of every species for the almighty dollar is simply inane.

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Scup

There is some crazy logic to it but once again, they bend over backwards to keep the draggers from going under and it seems to me with the attitude of "to hell with everyone else". The asinine logic is this: since there is a very high probably of whatever is gobbled up in a trawl is going to die anyway, why not keep it! Logic would dictate that draggers should be outlawed as there is enough known today concerning how they have decimated our ground fisheries (and the situation is getting worse.) There is no question that if the draggers were outlawed, the fish wholesalers as well would soon collapse since they cannot stay in business without a year long supply of fish to sell. However, they way we are currently going it is not going to matter much if the fisheries are damaged beyond repair. I hold a commercial fin fish license in Connecticut. I fish mostly hook and line and scup pots. The DEP usually allows me a greater fish limit if I use pots. The mortally rate of undersized fish caught in a fish pot is just about zero (far lower than hook and line). Logic would dictate that those who do the least damage to the fisheries should be rewarded and those who do the most damage should be penalized. Sometimes I have to wait almost an hour to sell my fish at the wholesalers because a dragger got there before me and is unloading. It is a bunch of nonsense that the recreational anglers are doing as much damage to the fisheries as the commercial guys. Typically, a single dragger unloads more summer flounder in a single trip than I have caught in 20 years; and I am only seeing what they are bringing in, not what they tossed over the side before they pulled into the dock. I really do not blame the draggers for being allowed to do the damage that they wreak on the fisheries; I blame government regulators with agendas that allow our environment to be wrecked. Even worst, our tax dollars are paying their salaries.

PG

The dispairity interests me. I will do some reseach to see if I can find out any of the legislative comments on this.

It just seems .. well....illogical.

JackC

Fast reply - I can come back and chat in greater detail latter. Fluke management is not much different in any of the states (not just CT). There are seperate quotas for rec. and com..

The big difference between rec. and com. is that the com. side has to report their landings. Once the com. hit their quota the fishery is shut down.

No one is going to find any "legislative comments" on fisheries management for CT of any great depth (if you find anything at all). The management is driven by the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Management Commission - and the CTDEP which works with them. ASMFMC has a good website.

Why do the recs have a high size limit and the com. side can keep a little fish? If the rec. side was allowed to keep smaller fish we would exceed the rec.quota is short order. On the rec. side the catch is limited by size and seasons - small size limit would equal a very short season.

Discards - a problem - just explaining the logic. The sad news is that fluke quotas are going to be cut by a high amount in 2008 (for both rec. and com.)

Jack

74Formula233

To throw something else out there for the discussion.....

Even tho Commercials are allowed to keep 14", they don't necessarily.......most opt to keep fishing for the larger fish to meet their quotas, as they bring higher $$ at the market than the 14" fish.

Now, for commercial R&R's this is fine, for obvious reasons.

For commercial draggers, this is NOT fine. As I understand it, their nets are designed to allow fish UNDER the limit to theoretically pass thru the mesh "unharmed". BUT, if they are tossing 14" fish in lieu of larger for their trip quota, that means, they are theoretically discrading a lot of dead "legal" fish. THIS is what really concerns me.

If the above is, in fact true, I would most definitely support a higher size limit for commercials, AND an adjustment of the net mesh accordingly!

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Bob & Mag

I'm not in favor or have ever been of commercials taking 14" fish. Net design works to a degree also but once the fish pile up in the cod end nothing is getting out regardless how small. There, I believe, needs to be a middle ground here where the quota can be achieved where comm/rec get to take the same sized fish. Perhaps that is 17 or 18 inches (to be calculated by those making the rules now) but, I don't want the commercial taking such small fish period and would agree to a larger size IF AND ONLY IF that size applies to everyone.
As far as numbers being caught and recording them, follow a dragger after he hauls the net and ask if those floating fish are being counted?

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of food, electricity, gas, and oil, the light at the end of the tunnel has been turned off.

Smoke free 4 Months!

PG

Jack
thanks for the info on the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission. here is the web site link.

Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission

Interesting info here. It is going to take a whle to read it all.

Here is a quote frpm the species stock status;



PG

Bob & Mag

I put that ASMFC link up with a sticky for future reference. good info.

__________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of food, electricity, gas, and oil, the light at the end of the tunnel has been turned off.

Smoke free 4 Months!

Scup

I agree with 74 Formula233, with the exception of his last statement. Even with a larger mesh size, once a trawl gets stuff in it, undersized fluke may not be able to get free. These dead fish will now end up being thrown over the side and not even count toward any quota. The trawls simply do too much damage to our fish stocks. Everyone knows this! What should be done is outlaw fishing techniques that wastefully damages our fish stocks. Regulators are playing a very dangerous game at our expense. They will allow the commercial sector to wreck our fish stocks up to the point of being just short of complete decimation. If they estimate correctly, enough remains for one more year of this foolishness . If they guess wrong, well look at what happened to the winter flounder and the weakfish.