??? for the Toggers - Page 2

74Formula233 · 11-15-2007, 07:12 AM

Well, the soft mouth theory may or may not be true, I never asked any of the Togs I've caught in spring LOL.

But I will say we used to bail hundreds of pounds of Togs each trip when we fished commercially for them......using sea clams/worms in the early spring

Bob & Mag · 11-15-2007, 07:54 AM

If we could only get the togs to register here and read this thread, maybe they would cooperate or at least get on the same page as the rest of us.

ReelCrazySportfishing · 11-15-2007, 08:28 AM

If the togs could get us all on the same page and tell us what they want there would be none of them left.

Scup · 11-15-2007, 09:31 AM

If someone needs a bucket of crabs and a few live eels, and they live in the Stonington area, they could have them. Shoot me an e-mail as I am going to dump them since I made my last trip out yesterday. It was flat calm at 0900. Took the old clam rake and got my limit by 1000. Was thinking of heading out to Latimer's for some togs when the wind went from nothing to gusting more than 20 MPH from the South in less than five minutes. I really do not care too much for the way November winds are so unpredictable. It was a good thing I did not head out further as things would have gotten messy.

CaptDom · 11-15-2007, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scup

If someone needs a bucket of crabs and a few live eels, and they live in the Stonington area, they could have them. Shoot me an e-mail as I am going to dump them since I made my last trip out yesterday. It was flat calm at 0900. Took the old clam rake and got my limit by 1000. Was thinking of heading out to Latimer's for some togs when the wind went from nothing to gusting more than 20 MPH from the South in less than five minutes. I really do not care too much for the way November winds are so unpredictable. It was a good thing I did not head out further as things would have gotten messy.

Messy is not the word. By 1 PM, we were the only boat left out there, and we did the slow crawl back in with a following sea of 6-8 feet( and peaked) at the mouth of the bay.

The fishing was hot, but lots of smaller fish on the 40-60 foot pieces. Time to head out to the deeper wrecks and ledges next week!

As far as the soft mouth thing goes, any of you naysayers care to wager who will catch more tog on the same piece using your crabs against my worms in early April??? You pick the piece, I'll destroy your ego and take your money.......

Scup · 11-16-2007, 08:22 AM

The blackfish season is now closed during the period of Springtime that I would normally get geared up for them. Before all of these regulations came into play, I did targeted them during this period. The current hands off policy during this period, I believe is a good one. However, by the time the season reopens, there are other species out there that hold a greater interest for me. This business of togs having a soft mouth during the early months of the year, well, I just cannot buy into. I have caught thousands of togs in the past, Spring and Fall, and I have never caught a black with a soft mouth. Perhaps the term "Soft-mouth" refers to the tog's preference of bait rather than some physical attribute. I have not thought about this in years, but traditionally, fishing out of Sheepshead Bay, no one would use green crabs in the Springtime for togs. The choice of bait was the skimmer clam (surf clam) because it worked and was the cheapest bait available, that is until Howard Johnson figured out to market these clam strips in their all-you-eat buffets. There was never a question that worms were the premier bait, but even way back then they commanded a premier price. During the Fall, everyone would switch to crabs (hermit, fiddlers, and green) as they were inexpensive and worked very well.

Togs still have me confused as to their preferences (especially their sensitivity to water temperatures as the captain pointed out to me) and they are probably more versatile as to what they will eat than most believe. This past season I have caught a few loner togs on squid while porgy fishing. Quite often, when chumming for bass with grass shrimp, togs would rise off the bottom and get into the mix. Until my salt water aquarium had sprung a leak, I had a tog in it. He would seem to scuff at the small crabs that I would place in the tank for him. Put a worm in there, anytime, and he would go after it with a vengeance. To entertain my guests, I would toss in a handful of grass shrimp, and he would immediately go into a feeding frenzy picking up every shrimp he could get his mouth on. The confusion concerning togs seems to be not what they will eat, but when they are in a mood to eat what you are offering to them.

AlloyToy · 11-16-2007, 08:51 AM

This fall my boys were netting a bunch of crabs for tog fishing, and ended up with a bay scallop in the crab net. We were anchored up so for the hell of it I opened the scallop and baited my hook with it. Dropped it down over the rock pile we were on, and SLAM!!!! I bet that bait didn't get 20 feet deep, and a nice 6 pound tog swam up and grabbed it. I was surprised the fish would come up from 60 plus feet to grab that bait. This was back in early Oct.

CaptDom · 11-16-2007, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scup

Togs still have me confused as to their preferences (especially their sensitivity to water temperatures as the captain pointed out to me) and they are probably more versatile as to what they will eat than most believe. This past season I have caught a few loner togs on squid while porgy fishing. Quite often, when chumming for bass with grass shrimp, togs would rise off the bottom and get into the mix. Until my salt water aquarium had sprung a leak, I had a tog in it. He would seem to scuff at the small crabs that I would place in the tank for him. Put a worm in there, anytime, and he would go after it with a vengeance. To entertain my guests, I would toss in a handful of grass shrimp, and he would immediately go into a feeding frenzy picking up every shrimp he could get his mouth on. The confusion concerning togs seems to be not what they will eat, but when they are in a mood to eat what you are offering to them.

Once again, excellent post, Scup. I too have had tog in home tanks, and experienced very similar results with their eating preferences in captivity. The sand worms and brine shrimp would always elicit the strongest response. The turbo snails I bought were often ignored, or sometimes the little buggers would pick them up if too big to get in their mouths, and run them into the rocks or side of the tank to break them!

I too do not believe it is a physical attribute of the togs to get"soft mouths", rather I think of it as a nickname that fisherman so often give to peculiarities of certain species. It is only logical to figure out that they are going to prefer a bait that is much more prevalent at the time. Stripers change their focus throughout the year quite a bit, look at how horrible the fishing can be with traditional baits during the shrimp, crab, and worm hatches! Toggies go through different preferences as well.

In my early commercial days, the last 2 weeks of April were the times when I did not mind paying for the flat of worms(I had a good cheap source right from a digger) or the skimmers, as they easily outproduced the crabs during this short time period. The water is warming up very rapidly at that point, due to the warming from the better angle of the sun and warming average temps. The crabs start crawling during this time frame, and by the first week of May I am usually starting to do very well in my traps by that time. This is not to say that I don't get a few crabs here and there, even over the winter. It is just that they are slow to move and not as abundant then, therefore logically there are far less for the tog to pick off at that point; it is also far easier for the fish to eat the softer baits, and most fish are opportunity feeders.

I agree with Scup that the challenge lies far more in knowing when and where exactly these fish will eat rather than what they will take. There is no doubt that they are very temperature sensitive. They also seem very affected by water turbidity and detritus(clarity), as they rely on not only scent but eyesight to hone in on their quarry.

I have done quite a bit of research on Tog migrations over the past few years, and it is well documented that these fish not only travel shorter distances throughout their active seasons, they also migrate a good distance offshore in winter. The tag guys in VA and MD have had returns from the offshore wrecks that traveled over 100 miles!!

Knowing when to move from shallow bay water to deeper ocean water in the fall is the key to scoring good catches of larger fish well into winter months.

I still welcome any challengers to my wager in April 2008. Me and Eric(74Formula233) vs. any twosome out there, our worms and clam snot to your crabs(any species of crab).....any takers???

ReelCrazySportfishing · 11-16-2007, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptDom

I still welcome any challengers to my wager in April 2008. Me and Eric(74Formula233) vs. any twosome out there, our worms and clam snot to your crabs(any species of crab).....any takers???

In whos waters???

CaptDom · 11-16-2007, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReelCrazySportfishing

In whos waters???

Any waters you want.

The tog in my waters are good friends with the tog in yours, and picked up all their bad habits anyway....

Only way to have it truely work would be to fish from the same boat......

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