Philly Doug

There is a model one size bigger that might interest you. Holds more line but the same drag. I have never fished that model. The LX is next and is sweet for bass. More drag and a lot more line but weighs more than the SX. The SX is just fantastic for drifting because is weighs so little. I have mine on a 6 1/2 St. Croix and you can fish the combo comfortably for hours.

Scup

My reasoning for line backing does not coincide with the reasoning of others. I am not familiar with your reel, but this is how I think about backing. Being brought up with inexpensive reels, some of which have had plastic spools (not as robust as metal spools) one has to be careful when one would fill up a spool with mono, either being used as backing or just filling up the entire spool with what you want and not use backing at all. The problem here is mono can exert tremendous side pressure on a spool if wound on under tension. This holds true for spinning or conventional reels. I cannot recall how many spools I distorted because of side pressure build up due to mono. Foul hooking a 12 pound blue will definitely put tension on your line as you reel in. Warning bells should go off in your head if the spool on your reel is plastic, do not use mono for backing and if mono is your main line then be sure to back it with a softer line than mono. For example, Power Pro is great but very expensive to use for backing. On the other hand, I never ever plan on having any fish get me down to my backing. Therefore, it really does not make much difference to me what backing goes on my reels as its purpose is to able to change your mechanical advantage and to provide a cushion for your desired main line (especially if it mono.) Typically, I go on EBAY, and buy inexpensive one pound spools of heavy duty sewing thread. Again, the only purpose of my backing is to increase the diameter of my spool, so its strength really does not matter. I better explain this a little further. When the super lines like Power Pro came along one could end up with three times as much line as needed on a reel because of its very fine diameter for its great strength. In addition, Power Pro is extremely expensive but anyone who has used it knows it is worth its value. I have notice that with the advent of the newer reels with very high gear ratios, they left much to be desired when it comes to bottom fishing such as one would want for scup/fluke fishing. Typically, I catch 50 pounds of scup per day, and the old Penn standby reels such as the Penn Long beach with its low gear ratio suits me fine. Newer reels with a 3.5 to 1 ratio, or higher, are a poor choice for bottom fishing, however, these reels can still, in effect can be made to have a lower gear ratio simply by not using any backing and go directly with Power Pro. Even if one only fills the spool halfway, there should still be several hundred yards of Power Pro on it. All you have done is reduce the amount of line you retrieve per turn on the reel handle. One other thing should be said when it comes to Power Pro. I always fish with my fingers on my line when scup fishing. Anything less than 65 pound test Power Pro is so thin that I have trouble feeling the line. Another reason for staying away from the lower pound test range of these super thin lines is the care put into the construction of your conventional reel. Unless your spool is fitted very precisely to its side plates, there is always a chance that your super thin line will pass under the spool flange and then you could end up in big trouble. A single turn of the handle could weaken or completely cut your line where it passes under the flange. Larger diameter lines such as Power Pro will minimize this, if not completely eliminate it. Do not forget, that 65 pound test Power Pro is still a very thin line. By not having your spool filled to the full point, you will minimized the possibility of your line passing under the spool flange even if you have a sloppily made reel. Lastly, I never tie my Power Pro directly to my terminal tackle. I always use a fluorocarbon leader tied to the Power Pro using an Albright knot with at least 30 or more turns used in is fabrication. Why so many turns! Most novices tend to reel in their Scup to within a foot or two of the end of the rod tip. Next time you see a commerical guy hauling in Scup notice that he will be using a seven foot rod, and stop reeling in when the fish is about six feet from the end of his rod. By raising ones rod, the fish will swing in gracefully to the angler. No fuss, no trouble, no problems. Watch what happens when a novice angler reels in his fish too short. I adjust my fluorocarbon leader and my easily visible knot such that when my knot reaches the surface it is time to raise my rod and bring my fish home. Eventually after retying my leader several times it becomes too short but by then it would be time to replace it anyway. It is also far easier to tie fluorocarbon to a terminal rig than Power Pro.

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"Success seems to be largely a matter of hanging on after others have let go" by William Feather

PG

Scupthanks for your response.Since I am still very new to salt water fishing ( 5 years) could you explain why the reels with 3.5 to 1 or higher are poor choices for bottom fishing.What reel would you use for blackfishing?ThanksPaul

Scup

PG,

What is your hurry in getting your fish in! I typically put fifty pounds of scup in my boat per day, and I would not be able to do that by horsing the fish in. You would be asking for trouble by being in such a big rush. Small hooks such as an O'Shaughnessy #1 work great for scup. Remember, I look at things a little bit different than a recreational fisherman. Scup, right now, have hit record setting prices: $2.40 per pound for Jumbo sized, 2.30 per pound for Large sized, and $2.15 per pound for Medium sized. While a #1 hook is fine for large scup, it is a little on the tad side of being small for a Jumbo sized scup (over two pounds.) When you hook a monster sized fish for its species, the last thing you would want to do is risk horsing the fish in and have the small hook pull or cut its way out the fishes mouth. I drop a two pound plus fish and there goes five bucks. On the other hand, the largest percentage of my catch is made up of Medium sized fish. Should I use a larger hook to target Jumbo scup, I would miss out on the majority of my catch. Therefore, I use a #1 hook, and take it easy when I hook into a larger fish. That way I have the best of both worlds.
To answer your question about gear ratios and mechanical advantage, this is what I have seen to have happen over the years. The traditional (and still very suited for bottom fishing) conventional reels were the Penn reels with 2.5 to 1 or 3.0 to 1 gear ratios. Other manufacturers made similar models as well. These reels would have a fairly large sized spool with a decent sized handles. They could easily bring up a 30 pound cod or be used to spend the day fishing for Fluke, Porgies (Scup) , or Blackfish. These reels did not contain a level wind mechanism, although Penn did bring out a 9, 109, 209, etc. series with a horrible level wind design which they promptly advertised as being "world renowned". The reels were good, it was just that the level wind mechanism would not hold up under commercial or even recreational conditions. The fix is simple enough: remove the mechanism and cover the holes left with aluminum duct tape. How did all of this craze for small high speed gear ratio reels come about would be a guess on my part. Lines have gotten thinner, hence the need for a large spool diminished. Should one keep the same low gear ratio on a reel with a smaller diameter spool, it would take way to long to get your fish in. Hence, manufacturers had to do something and upping the gear ratio was the only option left to them. A problem with low gear ratios is there are times when you really do need a high speed reel. A good example of this is Bluefish. I am convinced that while the highest speed that you could reel a lure in may not be the best speed to nail your quarry, it becomes almost impossible to reel in too fast to not to have Blue be able to chase your lure down. Blues are that fast. Therefore, the purpose of a high speed reel is to be able to cast, and then retrieve your lure at a high rate of speed, usually for game fish such as a Blue. No one need cast for Scup, Fluke, Winter Flounder, Cod, or Blackfish. Hence, the need for a high speed reel diminishes greatly and the old fashioned conventional reels come into their own. I own a Penn 321 Graphite high speed level wind reel and hate it. To get it to the point where I have to reduce its mechanical advantage to where I like it, I then run into another problem. By putting less line on it to increase its mechanical advantage, the level wind mechanism must now cycle through more times for a given amount of line leaving the reel. Should one run into a school of feeding Blues, the casting range of your outfit is now hampered by the level wind mechanism. I do not care how well or how smooth your level wind works, every time it comes to the end of its reach it has to stop and reverse itself. I could cast much further with one of my old Penn 155 wide spool reels with a plastic or lightweight aluminum spool and of course, no level wind to slow things down. I will never understand the popularity of level wind reels especially when it comes to fishing for in shore species like many of us do. It is not hard to educate your thumb to act as a level wind mechanism. It requires no upkeep, never fails, is less costly (actually free) and is always ready for action.

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"Success seems to be largely a matter of hanging on after others have let go" by William Feather

Rover74

I started using a 6.1 ratio this year and wouldn't go back to anything less for fishing deep water or bottom fish.

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Scup

Rover74,

Since my last post I have landed 50 pounds of Scup, I will be 70 years old this year, and I am not the least bit tired. In two hours from now, I will be going out again, and I fully intend to catch another 50 pounds of Scup although it will not be as easy as last evening. I expect the weekend boating traffic will be causing my small anchored ride to be bobbling about like a dancing cork this morning due to the non stop wakes of passing weekend warriors. Even worse, this is the "Blessing of the Fleet" weekend so I really do hope that somebody upstairs takes pity on me and keeps me out of harms way. Still, I expect to have reached my legal limit of fifty pounds of Scup this morning within two hours. I have and will do this with a second hand Penn 209 (level wind removed and the holes left patched with aluminum duct tape) purchased from Ebay for around $24.00. When you say deep water, keep in mind that I do most of my fishing in waters around 10 to 20 feet deep. I tend to fish the reefs for obvious reasons. It will never make any sense to me why novices feel the urge to "beat the clock" when reeling in fish. More fish are probably lost because of haste than any other reason. I am not implying that you are a novice, but for the shallow water fishing that I have done all my life, I know what suits me. Perhaps if I was younger, the additional effort needed by using a 6 to 1 gear ratio reel would not bother me as much as it does today. To me endurance is important, and I know my limitations. I cannot go out, reel in 50 pounds of scup within two hours, wait a few hours hours until midnight rolls around and go out again and repeat my act with another fifty pounds of Scup using a high speed reel that will sap my limited energy. When the limit of Scup was 200 pounds per day, even with my fish pots and low ratio reels, I am over loaded and could never attain that limit even on my best day. There was a time when I could and did land 200 pounds of Scup by myself, but that was fifty years ago. There are several commercial guys that fish the RI reefs that can still do this (they amaze even me) but please have some pity on my old bones and do not knock my easy going low gear ratio reels that suit my style of fishing so well. The Penn Long Beach series has been discontinued with its powerful 2.5 to 1 gear ratio but they are still to be had, and the Penn 209 family with its 3 to 1 gear ratio is still out there, being sold new today, after more than five, maybe six, decades. Not too shabby for a reel with a crappy level wind mechanism.

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"Success seems to be largely a matter of hanging on after others have let go" by William Feather