Scup

The Ct DEP sent out the enclosed letter concerning a meeting set for today at @ 2PM for next years Fluke and Scup Quotas. To say the least, I was very unhappy with the Scup Quotas set for this year. While I am not really sure what is going on or how these quotas are set and by whom, there has to be something wrong somewhere. There are several points I wish to make:
1. The Scup population in Southeastern Connecticut has never been so plentiful. Our CT DEP knows this because how could there be a surge in landings that placed our quota over by 30% when the season was only open in Aug, Sept, and Oct, for a total of 12 days. The scup were practically jumping into one's boat. If the Scup were not so plentiful, we could not have had the ability to land so many of them in such a short period of time.
2. The landings for Scup for the 2008 has dwindled! I am just about ready to scream if some idiot produces a graph to demonstrate that the Scup population is in trouble because the of the drop in landings. If you only open a season for 12 days in three months, then what do you expect!
3. I suspect, because of the previous letters sent to me by the DEP, that they determine the heath of a species by doing sample trawls in specific areas. The letters sent, provide the exact locations where they will conduct these sampling trawls. It appears that our DEP marches in lock step to the whims of these so called marine biophysical scientists who very likely have no comprehension of what they are about when it comes to fish movements. As many members of this form have noted, there where so many scup about this year they simply over grazed their normal feeding grounds. What else can the Scup to do when there is nothing left for them to eat other than simply moving off into areas where food abounds! Why is this such a complicated process for the scientists to understand. They conducted their trawls in the wrong sectors. Lacking a source of food, the Scup moved into the shallows; areas as shallow as five feet to feed where food is plentiful. There was not a single trawl conducted, unless they modified their game plan and did not tell anyone, in the shallows. There were so many Scup in the shallows, I purchased a cast net for this specific purpose, but by the time the net came the season had closed.
4. Right now I am allowed to land 2000 pounds of scup. A serious question has to be asked; "is the DEP nuts". I have been trying to get my 16 foot boat hauled, along with my pots, for more than two weeks now as it has been caught up in ice. When the ice had thawed, the winds kicked in. In the mean time, the Scup have move out to their normal wintering areas far removed from the range of a small boat.
5. The price of Scup is seasonal! This past summer, the price of Scup rose to $2.85 per pound. The DEP knows this because the price is reported in the wholesaler's log book. Right now, the wholesale price of Scup is 50 cents per pound. After speaking with a dragger, they are not overjoyed with being closed down when the price peaks and are then allowed 2000 pounds when scup are worth next to nothing. Let's assume our DEP is locked into the poorly devised Scup quota set, would it be so terrible to meet this quota by matching the timing of the set quota to the peak demand. The dragger I spoke with would prefer a 300 pound limit per day, all summer, rather than nothing all summer and then a massive 2000 pounds per day now that would only yield a $1000 at best. Most would be willing to take much less than the allowable quota if only they could fish when the prices are high. I would be happy with 50 pounds a day all summer and really do not give a dam what I am allowed when I cannot get out to fish for them or make anything even if I should catch them because the price fell out through the bottom.

I hope somebody goes to this meeting but it is not going to be me. I have attended my fair share of these meetings and my words always fell on deft ears. It appears to be nothing more than a game, they appear to listen, then nothing! The only time I have ever gotten a reply, is when a letter was sent.

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"Success seems to be largely a matter of hanging on after others have let go" by William Feather

Bob & Mag

Do you see the dates on that notice?
Nov 14th and Thursday November 25. Thursday is Thanksgiving day and
today is the 25th.???

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Smoke free 9+ Months!

Scup

Bob, I missed that completely! Nov, 14 was my birthday (Possum does update user's profiles) and these types of DEP errors do not surprised me? These are the same gems that control everything in our lives concerning fishing and they cannot even hire someone to proof their letters. Maybe instead of hiring more officers, they should contract you out to proof their documentation.

__________________
"Success seems to be largely a matter of hanging on after others have let go" by William Feather

JackC

Scup, I don't go to the commercial meetings since I don't hold a license. On the recreational side I received a somewhat disturbing letter from ASMFC discussing recreational rules for 2009, it was not specific in terms of what the real bottom line is going to be but overall, they were looking for reductions in scup, fluke and sea bass for 2009. Since the quotas are divided between rec. and commercial what I think you are seeing is a "shot across the bow" for 2009. CTDEP regulations for both commercial and recreational are really mandates from ASMFC.

On the recreational front what is really disturbing is that the 2008 statistics "show" that CT overfished its recreational fluke allocation. My experience and all of my friends (from Stratford to Old Lyme) was that CT had a very, very poor fluke year.


I have a feeling that 2009 is going to be "tough year" for regulations. There is going to be a push for common fluke regulations but I think that is going to be a battle.

Jack

Scup

JackC, You seem to make far more sense to me than those who place regulations down on our heads. This was a horrible year for fluke in CT, with some bright spots but there were not the numbers as in the past. A good indicator is even the commerical season for fluke (I believe this since I have not gotten a letter yet) has not been closed. Common sense would indicate if the commerical sector is not reaching their quotas quickly something is very wrong. This was a very tough year for the draggers as for most of the summer it was hands off for the scup so they concentrated on the fluke. I think the quotas set for fluke were too generous but our DEP still marches in lockstep to the demands and whims of the scientists. Black Sea Bass is another area where I thought some change in quotas were needed. Again, I caught hundreds this year, but landed only a handful of pounds. Lots and lots of small ones, but no keepers. There are some five pounders out there in deeper waters but there are way too many of the throw backer sizes. This is one species that wants to make it, but they have to be given a chance to grow up. The commerical and recreational limit of 25 fish per day seems way too high to me. A small recreational boat with four fisherman could land 100 fish legally assuming they could find them. Both the sizes and numbers allowed should have been modified years ago. As for Scup, I think the scientists were way too cautious and off in their estimates. The only problem I have is I only know what is happening in my own backyard, perhaps the scup are in big trouble elsewhere but they were plentiful in Southeastern Connecticut and Western Rhode Island. Lastly, the wholesalers are coming very close to going belly up. Reduced hours, men standing idly by with no product to push along could mean their demise. I know they will not get much sympathy from this form, but I see the industry as consisting of very hard working good natured men who would give you the shirts off of their backs that are caught up in a dying industry. What scares me is when they disappear, this valuable industry will be out there and up for grabs, and powerful groups that can influence (buy) our regulators will appear on the scene. Sorry for feeling this way, but I do not see much leadership in our government lately for protecting USA citizens.

__________________
"Success seems to be largely a matter of hanging on after others have let go" by William Feather

Bob & Mag

Here's how our season went for fluke and scup:
Fluke started with a 1 keeper to 27 fish caught for the first month or so.
Then it jumped up to 1 keeper to 6 fish caught and stayed there for the
remainder of the season. (Clinton/Westbrook areas fished).
Our trips averaged 2 to 3 hours long and we usually took home 1 fish(couple times 2).
Largest fish was 7 1/2 lbs pounds (boga liar grip).
Scup : We found very few fish early on, though they were large fish(up to 18"). Then
numbers came in but average size dropped darmatically (lots of shorts).
(Westbrook/Clinton/Madison areas fished).
I have a feeling we'll be seeing a regional approach to limits for us and neighboring states. Jack have you heard if they are anticipating using regional regs for next year?

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fishcounterbob

No representation in the state legislation. There is not a fisherman or woman who is in a position to influence any vote or decision making process in CT. On the rec side of things a salt water license is upon us with the money going to the general fund. No new DEP resources, no new public access, no funding for boat ramps. I gave up on meetings and being a member of an advisory committee a couple years ago. My blood doesn't boil the way it used to.
On the commercial side, when I went to the west coast to fish salmon and tuna in the early 80's, I returned to CT to find that no CT landings-no permit, even though I kept 5 boats regestered in this state from the 60's through now. The National Fisherman magazine was my bible. With three young kids it was fishig my way or no way. I wasn't about to go off shore for a chance at a good living.
The CT commercial regs are so off based it is almost unimaginable. Every adjoining state has a striped bass fishery. The Hudson river fish leave NY commercially fished waters for a free pass in CT to get to commercially fished waters in all of New England. You can't get a net close to the deep Long Island Sound wrecks for the large sea bass. No more winter flounder, rediculously small daily limits on every variety. It has become a gentleman farming resource. You can't make a living, just a passtime. My sons could never have been in the fleet if they even wanted.
Specifically, some of our regs are so far out of wack in Ct I wont even fish here. A 14" tog is legal, the scup open and close seasons, ten snapper blues, and shore fishermen who are subsistence fishing having to return a 24-28" dinner size striper.
I now measure and weigh fish in RI just to know the process of crunching numbers for what I believe is estimating the biomass of species. I only hope my grandchildren get to catch some of the species I persue. Now I only target individual species to check them off my catch list every year.
On the plus side, I feel lucky to have caught new species this year.

JackC

CT Marine License - the bill did not pass, CT anglers (actually all Marine Anglers will need to abide by Federal registry requirements). The CT Bill dedicated that funds be allocated back to DEP, not the general fund. (There is always some confusion on this.) The Federal registry is supposed to be free for a few years. Once we have to pay the feds assume the bill will finally pass so the funding goes to the CTDEP instead of the feds.

Scup (the fish not the moderator)... all the "scup states" basically had the same regulations for the past 2 years (recreational). This includes bags and seasons. Party and charter had a bonus season (in Mass it was early in the year in RI, CT, NY it was the fall fishery.) Bottom line on this fish (as explained to me by Eric Smith who has retired as CTDEP Marine Fisheries Director) was that the stock size is unknown and the Feds are being cautious in managing this fishery. The feds conduct offshore tows to estimate stock size, if the fish aren't there the stock assessment is bleak (but the fish could be elsewhere as noted in the above posts.) Eric made this very same point with me!

The scup fishery for me was very slow this year but of course once the season shut the fish invaded the deeper reefs off Clinton (I had a little tear in my eye putting all the monster scup back in the water while trying to get a few tog in what I will call "shoals of scup".) As explained to me earlier in the year my scup grounds where most likely over grazed and that was why they were not heavy on my favorite reefs (I caught them but not like I normally do).

The feds need to get a better handle on the true stock assessment related to scup.

The "feds" would like to see fluke managed like scup with common regulations (at least by regions). Obviously, what works in RI,NY, CT might not be workable in VA. I think there is going to be incredible resistance against this concept, a state like RI enjoys liberal regulations and under the new concept regulations would be the same across the region (I support this but of course if you run a party boat out of RI this is not going to be good news.) Anyway - part of the plan for 2009 is to try to get some more common fluke regulations in place.

Bass - not all the Northeast states have a commercial fishery - Maine, NH, CT, NJ do not have a commercial fishery. Under the current management scenario you won't see a state get a commercial fishery in place if you did not have one previously. Many years ago a legislative effort (bill) was passed in CT to eliminate the bass fishery. (In the big picture I believe bass stocks are getting pounded harder than we realize and storm clouds are brewing in this area as well - even though the stock assessment is good.)

Sea bass - kind of "news of the weird". In my rather gabby letter from ASMFC - there was an interesting discussion on sea bass. In coincides with an observation and a big downturn in a little talked about fishery in mid-long island sound. There is a spawning run of sea bass that happens in mid sound (basically right over the line and in NY waters). There is a pretty big fish trap fishery in the area and I fished this location for the past few years (a friend told me about it a few years ago and passed the numbers along to me). Anyway - when there where enough fish around you could catch at least 10 per tide with some fish pushing 6 pounds. The males are in spawning color (different shades of blue) and something to see when alive. The letter explained that fishing on the spawning aggregations is very detrimental to the fishery. Basically the big males assemble a harem of females and fight to keep it. When you remove a big male is screws up the spawning and a female needs to change to male to complete the spawning process. I'm fairly certain that sea bass are fished pretty hard during spawning season in all the states that have a sea bass fishery.

For the past few years this particular fishery has been "bad" and I'm not sure why (most likely over fished). ASMFC did not yet advocate shutting down the spring fishery but you can see its going that way.

Winter flounder - talk of emergency action to shut down the entire fishery.

I was going to try to keep this short but I can see that didn't work.

I prefer to look at the glass as half full (rather than empty). I'm 52, while fishing was very different when I was a little kid (I started fishing LIS from boats when I was 5) we still have some decent fishing. Bass (good to very good), tautog (tough regulations but good/great fishing), scup - can be great fishing, no one really likes bluefish but they are in great shape (I don't mind fooling around with them on diamond jigs). Fluke - while I have not had a great year since 2005, if you head east the fishing is great.

Commercial fishing is basically not a viable commercial enterprise in our area for a newcomer or anyone looking for a career (not the point of this post but I understand the complaint about not being able to get a license.)

Everyone have a great Thanksgiving.

Jack

Scup

Bob,

While I have fared somewhat better than you, not by much. The Scup came in strong and very plentiful. They hit the shallows and remained there for most of the summer. July was the only month I really had to catch them. There was fifty pound limit, which was actually better than what most draggers had as they were shut down completely. By August 1, the DEP shut the scup down for the rest of the season except for a 12 day spree allowing 200 pounds per day the first part of September. Every pin fisherman was out there doing their best since the price of Scup broke all previous records. This is what was responsible for the 30% quota overage. By the time November 1, rolled around, the scup quotas were open up again with a 2000 pound limit per day. Of course by now, the scup left the shallows, and November proved to be one bitch of a month to fish with cold weather and gusty winds. The price of scup dropped to 50 cents per pound so many commercial guys just said the hell with it.

Fluke were never a viable commerical fish for me in Southeastern Conn. I have to fish in the wake of draggers and once one goes by, the fluking shuts down. Even if I tried to fluke well off the dragger's course, I still could not connect. Probably once a dragger goes by, he stirs up so much sediment that the visibility and the fluking goes to hell. On days I could fluke without interference, I could reach the recreational limit but barely. Basically it took up too much time for meager returns.

What was distrubing to me, was the lack of herring in my area. They breezed through in early summer and then took up shop in the Mystic and Thames river. Usually I catch several decent sized bass in the shallows throughout the summer but nothing to brag about here. I went out several times as a recreational angler, both chunking and drifting live eels with little luck. Without the herring to hold the large bass in close, it too became a waste of time. Even the lobstering was way out of whack. Very good start to the season, and a dam good finish, but very slow throughout the summer. A lot of lobsters but not much in the way of keepers.

__________________
"Success seems to be largely a matter of hanging on after others have let go" by William Feather