Marine Fisheries Regualtion Changes

Bob & Mag · 10-24-2007, 01:15 PM

Notice to Fisherman
Marine Fisheries Regulation Changes

The Department of Environmental Protection has recently implememnted regulations that affet commercial and recreational fishermen.

Recreational measures were implemented that:

(1) Makes final the 5 fish limit for summer flounder implemented last spring by declaration.

(2) Reduces the creel limit for weakfish from 10 fish to 6 effective October 29, 2007.

(3) Makes final the closed season of September 6 through April 29 for summer flounder implemented last spring by declaration.

Commercial measures were implemented that:

(1) Clarifies the department's existing role and practices related to lobster pot tag puchase authorizations for Lobster Management Areas (LMAs) other than LMA 2 or LMA 6

(2) Amends language limiting the number of lobster pots in a LMA 6 pot allocation that can convey in a license transfer to be consistent with the Connecticut General Statutes.

(3) Allows the Commissioner to authorize the transfer of Lobster Management Area 2 lobster pot allocations consistent with the provisions of the Lobster Fishery Management Plan.

(4) Extends indefinitely the requirement for the commercial fishery endorsement letters for summer flounder, scup and black sea bass.

(5) Makes final the changes in the commercial fishery possession limits for summer flounder implemented by declaration in early 2007 to address the reduction in the commercial quota.

(6) Eliminates the scup commercial license endorsement letter required from November 1 through April 30 when commercial scup landings are subject to a coarstwide quota.

(7) Exempt commercial vessels that are landing quota-managed species under the Research Set-Aside (RSA) Program of the National Marine Fisheries Service (NMFS) from commercial license endorsement letter requirements and from possession limits and closed seasons other than those specified by NMFS for the RSA program.

For further information, contact the
DEP Marine Fisheries Division, P.O. Box 719, Old Lyme, CT 06371
or by
telephone at 860.434.6043 between the hours of 8:30 am and 4:30 pm, Mon. through Fri.

The above taken from Notice sent by CT DEP dated 10/23/2007.
Additional information can be found at their website
http://www.ct.gov/dep

fishon99 · 10-25-2007, 12:03 PM

Interesting, I was wondering if the Comm scup stayed open past Oct 31 as it has in past years. It sounds like it does.

Scup · 10-25-2007, 01:43 PM

This is typical of our DEP. I would seriously doubt that anyone can understand what they wrote and where they are actually coming from. Look at the clause where during the winter months, commercial fishermen are exempt from limits, endorsements letters, or for that matter anything else. Just who is going to be out there during the winter if not the draggers. As I said before, it is not the recreational angler, or the pinfish commercial fisherman the DEP looks out after, it is the draggers. The DEP charter reads that they have to consider all interests which includes recreational anglers. Guess who does the most damage to the fishery and the environment by plowing up the bottom! Right now, because I have all of my endorsements letters, I could go out and pound the scup to beat all hell. If anyone thinks I am going to risk my life by heading to points south of Latimer's Reef in a 16 foot boat this time of the year, they had better think again. They closed both the recreational and the commercial fluke season this fall but because they miss-estimated the fluke quota, they reopened not the recreational season, but the commercial season. While everyone is thinking about keeping warm this winter, the draggers will be adding to some quota which I doubt anyone understands. And who then gets the blame for exceeding our quota? Of course it is not laid at the draggers doorstep, but of that of the recreational and commercial pinfish anglers. Perhaps I am wrong, in my analysis, after all I only hold two engineering degrees and I still cannot make out just what our DEP is trying to do. If anyone can understand what is really happening could they please explain it me.

Bob & Mag · 10-25-2007, 02:23 PM

I was quite surprised after going to the fluke meeting earlier this year and then getting the final regs, to see the commercial season reopened and NOT the rec season. I don't know where they get the numbers from? Commercial what's reported and spot checks and ramps for recs? Very frustrating as we primarily target fluke. I would think if this happened for bass, all hell would break lose.

Bob & Mag · 10-29-2007, 11:18 AM

Reminder:
Today is the day, weakfish limit changes. See top post from the other day.

JackC · 10-29-2007, 08:41 PM

Just some fast comments: DEP develops regulations to coincide with rulings by the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission - the regs are not mandated by the state in a vacuum. Commercial versus recreational - the state does not "favor" either sector, allocations are based on historic landings. In general the system drives us all nuts and is filled win inequities.

Why did they open the commercial fluke and not the recreational? Easy answer - commercial is a hard quota with the requirement to report landings. They know what is LEGALLY landed. When the numbers are crunched if the fishery did not get their quota they can open the fishery up for a limited time period. Recreational data is not yet tallied up from the various surveys - the data will not be available until latter this year (normally December). We don't know how are landings were (my gut is that the CT landings are not high.)

Jack

Bob & Mag · 10-29-2007, 09:42 PM

Jack,
Just a side note, when I asked DEP if they count or use the survey data, their answer was they do not use it for the purposes mentioned above. Makes me wonder why in hell I'm filling them out. I asked this question at the fluke meeting in Clinton. They study the numbers but don't use them to set limits/seasons. How in hell are they counting rec fish? It can't be from the few times someone shows up at the launches I hope.
It just seems to be the easy way out setting lose the comms and we get to watch.

JackC · 10-29-2007, 10:40 PM

The anglers log survey is not used by ASMFC for purposes of understanding catch but the data does get used in other ways. I don't think its "random enough" for this purpose. Where does the data come from ? The DEP does a random survey at ramps and marinas. Last year I participated in the PCB study and the DEP ended up sending a guy to my marina to collect data from guys coming in (normally at the fillet table). This is Riverside in Clinton.

The feds collect data from a totally random telephone survey.

The bottom line is that "everyone" admits the data they collect is not tight enough for understanding landings. When the federal license kicks in, they are planning on having a survey of the true angling public.

In my many years of fishing I only got surveyed once at the boat ramp in Branford (about 1983).

Jack

Bob & Mag · 10-29-2007, 10:49 PM

Jack, Thanks for the info. So if I understand it, they survey then extrapolate the numbers but how do they know how many are fishing and if they are in fact fishing for that species?
Do you think there will come a time with an online database where one could connect and enter numbers instead of a written log? Maybe more would participate and higher number of reports would be of more value. Just thinking out loud. Doesn't seem to be any perfect way...at least one that comes to mind.

JackC · 10-29-2007, 11:04 PM

My last post for the evening...

Data - when they do the surveys they ask about what species you target, number of fishing trips a year, etc.

Again, as Eric Smith (DEP Marine Fisheries Director) will state in public the survey was not designed for what it is being used for - but its the best they can do. CT supposedly does a good job at the survey (and my fishing results seem to correspond to landing data for the state) a good tog year or fluke year for me seems to show up as a "high harvest" year for CT recreational data.

When the license hits they will come up with a scientific system for recreational landings. Jack

10-24-2007, 01:15 PM	#1
Bob & Mag User Gallery Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Clinton, CT Posts: 2,647	Marine Fisheries Regulation Changes Notice to Fisherman Marine Fisheries Regulation Changes The Department of Environmental Protection has recently implememnted regulations that affet commercial and recreational fishermen. Recreational measures were implemented that: (1) Makes final the 5 fish limit for summer flounder implemented last spring by declaration. (2) Reduces the creel limit for weakfish from 10 fish to 6 effective October 29, 2007. (3) Makes final the closed season of September 6 through April 29 for summer flounder implemented last spring by declaration. Commercial measures were implemented that: (1) Clarifies the department's existing role and practices related to lobster pot tag puchase authorizations for Lobster Management Areas (LMAs) other than LMA 2 or LMA 6 (2) Amends language limiting the number of lobster pots in a LMA 6 pot allocation that can convey in a license transfer to be consistent with the Connecticut General Statutes. (3) Allows the Commissioner to authorize the transfer of Lobster Management Area 2 lobster pot allocations consistent with the provisions of the Lobster Fishery Management Plan. (4) Extends indefinitely the requirement for the commercial fishery endorsement letters for summer flounder, scup and black sea bass. (5) Makes final the changes in the commercial fishery possession limits for summer flounder implemented by declaration in early 2007 to address the reduction in the commercial quota. (6) Eliminates the scup commercial license endorsement letter required from November 1 through April 30 when commercial scup landings are subject to a coarstwide quota. (7) Exempt commercial vessels that are landing quota-managed species under the Research Set-Aside (RSA) Program of the National Marine Fisheries Service (NMFS) from commercial license endorsement letter requirements and from possession limits and closed seasons other than those specified by NMFS for the RSA program. For further information, contact the DEP Marine Fisheries Division, P.O. Box 719, Old Lyme, CT 06371 or by telephone at 860.434.6043 between the hours of 8:30 am and 4:30 pm, Mon. through Fri. The above taken from Notice sent by CT DEP dated 10/23/2007. Additional information can be found at their website http://www.ct.gov/dep __________________ Smoke free 15 Weeks! Last edited by Bob & Mag; 10-24-2007 at 04:14 PM. Reason: typo

10-25-2007, 01:43 PM	#3
Scup NBS Member User Gallery Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Stonington Posts: 374	Clear as Mud This is typical of our DEP. I would seriously doubt that anyone can understand what they wrote and where they are actually coming from. Look at the clause where during the winter months, commercial fishermen are exempt from limits, endorsements letters, or for that matter anything else. Just who is going to be out there during the winter if not the draggers. As I said before, it is not the recreational angler, or the pinfish commercial fisherman the DEP looks out after, it is the draggers. The DEP charter reads that they have to consider all interests which includes recreational anglers. Guess who does the most damage to the fishery and the environment by plowing up the bottom! Right now, because I have all of my endorsements letters, I could go out and pound the scup to beat all hell. If anyone thinks I am going to risk my life by heading to points south of Latimer's Reef in a 16 foot boat this time of the year, they had better think again. They closed both the recreational and the commercial fluke season this fall but because they miss-estimated the fluke quota, they reopened not the recreational season, but the commercial season. While everyone is thinking about keeping warm this winter, the draggers will be adding to some quota which I doubt anyone understands. And who then gets the blame for exceeding our quota? Of course it is not laid at the draggers doorstep, but of that of the recreational and commercial pinfish anglers. Perhaps I am wrong, in my analysis, after all I only hold two engineering degrees and I still cannot make out just what our DEP is trying to do. If anyone can understand what is really happening could they please explain it me.

10-25-2007, 02:23 PM	#4
Bob & Mag User Gallery Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Clinton, CT Posts: 2,647	I was quite surprised after going to the fluke meeting earlier this year and then getting the final regs, to see the commercial season reopened and NOT the rec season. I don't know where they get the numbers from? Commercial what's reported and spot checks and ramps for recs? Very frustrating as we primarily target fluke. I would think if this happened for bass, all hell would break lose. __________________ Smoke free 15 Weeks!

10-29-2007, 11:18 AM	#5
Bob & Mag User Gallery Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Clinton, CT Posts: 2,647	Reminder: Today is the day, weakfish limit changes. See top post from the other day. __________________ Smoke free 15 Weeks!

10-29-2007, 08:41 PM	#6
JackC NBS Member User Gallery Join Date: May 2007 Location: North Branford Posts: 121	Regulations Just some fast comments: DEP develops regulations to coincide with rulings by the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission - the regs are not mandated by the state in a vacuum. Commercial versus recreational - the state does not "favor" either sector, allocations are based on historic landings. In general the system drives us all nuts and is filled win inequities. Why did they open the commercial fluke and not the recreational? Easy answer - commercial is a hard quota with the requirement to report landings. They know what is LEGALLY landed. When the numbers are crunched if the fishery did not get their quota they can open the fishery up for a limited time period. Recreational data is not yet tallied up from the various surveys - the data will not be available until latter this year (normally December). We don't know how are landings were (my gut is that the CT landings are not high.) Jack

10-25-2007, 12:03 PM	#2
fishon99 NBS Member User Gallery Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 109	Interesting, I was wondering if the Comm scup stayed open past Oct 31 as it has in past years. It sounds like it does.

10-29-2007, 09:42 PM	#7
Bob & Mag User Gallery Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Clinton, CT Posts: 2,647	Jack, Just a side note, when I asked DEP if they count or use the survey data, their answer was they do not use it for the purposes mentioned above. Makes me wonder why in hell I'm filling them out. I asked this question at the fluke meeting in Clinton. They study the numbers but don't use them to set limits/seasons. How in hell are they counting rec fish? It can't be from the few times someone shows up at the launches I hope. It just seems to be the easy way out setting lose the comms and we get to watch. __________________ Smoke free 15 Weeks!

10-29-2007, 10:40 PM	#8
JackC NBS Member User Gallery Join Date: May 2007 Location: North Branford Posts: 121	Rec Numbers The anglers log survey is not used by ASMFC for purposes of understanding catch but the data does get used in other ways. I don't think its "random enough" for this purpose. Where does the data come from ? The DEP does a random survey at ramps and marinas. Last year I participated in the PCB study and the DEP ended up sending a guy to my marina to collect data from guys coming in (normally at the fillet table). This is Riverside in Clinton. The feds collect data from a totally random telephone survey. The bottom line is that "everyone" admits the data they collect is not tight enough for understanding landings. When the federal license kicks in, they are planning on having a survey of the true angling public. In my many years of fishing I only got surveyed once at the boat ramp in Branford (about 1983). Jack

10-29-2007, 10:49 PM	#9
Bob & Mag User Gallery Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Clinton, CT Posts: 2,647	Jack, Thanks for the info. So if I understand it, they survey then extrapolate the numbers but how do they know how many are fishing and if they are in fact fishing for that species? Do you think there will come a time with an online database where one could connect and enter numbers instead of a written log? Maybe more would participate and higher number of reports would be of more value. Just thinking out loud. Doesn't seem to be any perfect way...at least one that comes to mind. __________________ Smoke free 15 Weeks!

10-29-2007, 11:04 PM	#10
JackC NBS Member User Gallery Join Date: May 2007 Location: North Branford Posts: 121	Data My last post for the evening... Data - when they do the surveys they ask about what species you target, number of fishing trips a year, etc. Again, as Eric Smith (DEP Marine Fisheries Director) will state in public the survey was not designed for what it is being used for - but its the best they can do. CT supposedly does a good job at the survey (and my fishing results seem to correspond to landing data for the state) a good tog year or fluke year for me seems to show up as a "high harvest" year for CT recreational data. When the license hits they will come up with a scientific system for recreational landings. Jack

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