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What have you got to say about the topic of: "SNESA - Pogy Bill Proposed for Narr. Bay". Here's how is started: "As far as I am concerned, it is time for the needs of the many "
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02-17-2007, 10:32 PM
| #11 | ||
| NBS Member  Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Bikini Bottom
Posts: 841
| As far as I am concerned, it is time for the needs of the many (recreational sector) to be considered over the needs of the few (commercial sector). For the record, I was a part time commercial fisherman for many years.....
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02-17-2007, 11:16 PM
| #12 | ||
  Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Blue Planet
Posts: 997
| B2, I see some of your points quite clearly, and I can agree with some of them. However, I gotta point out a few  things.The local families being placed out of work may be small to you, but pretty important to them...... Each and every time I read that article, I can't help but think about all the dollars they quote being spent on recreational fishing. The pogies sold at the 177 bait shops are part of that revenue. The pogies being used by the 153 charter businesses are also part of same revenue. The far reaching 470 jobs in the "hospitality" industry, gimme a break. The same waitresses and bartenders and hotel workers are not dependent on sportfishing.... Besides which, how much of that huge figuire actually represents only bait fishing for striped bass.....it goes way down from there.....but I can appreciate the sensationalism and rehtoric....as well as the projo normal bias.........Huge study group of 268 peopleand poached data from "previously published studies"....what a joke..... How much of that revenue in the total figure goes towards hospitality and retail sales on LOBSTAHS  ????...!!!!.....!!!!!!..... Another point being that all these fisherman will need to use bait. That bait will more than likely be pogies.....which will be harvested.... by someone, somewhere.....Or it will place more pressure on other forage species..... What do Stripers eat the other 10 months out of the year....And don't tell me eels.... Most of these same RISAA guys will use a live eel, even though it was seriously considred being placed on the endangered species list .... As long as its not in our backyards, is that what we got here..... Will these same out of state guys still come here to fish if none of the bait shops carry pogies???? Or will they stop at their local shop and pick up everything there before coming, thus having the countereffect..... My main issue with this fish grab by the recreational sector is that it has no science behind it. Never once does that article touch on the reverse side of the coin, or even mention the science behind the push for the ban. All it talks about is REVENUE..... Next, please tell me where you got the idea that pogies were in short supply? You ever talk to the guys in NJ about pogies and bait boats and reduction....... If the federal science published in 2007 states the pogies are not being overfished then where is your science coming from? How many pogies do you think will be saved just because they aren't taken in the Bay.... How many BIG striped bass you think are going to be picked off by googins who would never have the skill to catch them anywhere else except when they are crazed under a pod of huge pogies???? The questions go on and on from me.... Nobody who supports this bill will answer any of my questions or directly comment on any of my rather well thought out questions and points....... Until some real world data on the Narry pogie fishery is conducted and published, then commented on publicly nothing should be done. We close this to pressures from special interest groups and it won't stop there....trust me on that one.... I still see it as a fish grab so the sporties, of which I derive 80% of my income from mind you(who else do you think I take fishing besides recreational charter customers), can have them ALL to themselves......I am looking out for the recreational side on this, thats whats so frustrating..... Too many dime store marine biologists out there if you ask me......again, wheres the science, the raw data, the years of study in and around the bay on a carefully monitored protocol????..... Maybe ban the sale of pogies next......Or even better, what if they then say no harvesting at all of pogies by anyone...then how many sporties would be supporting this.....it doesn't end, see...... Knee jerk reactions and poorly planned bans never work...... Fish management is so bad already, do we want to set precedent with another poor move and further restriction where it may not be warranted.....
__________________ CAPT. DOM PETRARCA COASTAL CHARTERS SPORTFISHING NEWPORT, RI (401)-862-0358 www.coastalcharterssportfishing.com  | ||
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02-17-2007, 11:26 PM
| #13 | ||
| Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Blue Planet
Posts: 997
| B2, I gotta admit, I chuckled when I read your signature line again....kind of ironic don't you think....BIG pogies, equals big bass, right? Will you still use pogies as bait? Also, for clarification so I understand your postion better, I take it from your wording that you were a part time commercial fisherman.....? Also, please don't misconstrue my debate here as any type of anomisity on my part to anyone with an opposing view......I think this an important topic, and I like to see input from others on it. Your comments were appreciated, although I'm sticking to my guns 
__________________ CAPT. DOM PETRARCA COASTAL CHARTERS SPORTFISHING NEWPORT, RI (401)-862-0358 www.coastalcharterssportfishing.com | ||
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02-18-2007, 08:48 AM
| #14 | ||
| NBS Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Bikini Bottom
Posts: 841
| Capt., first off, no animosity and I am appreciative of your response and you're keeping a level head over my knee jerk response. As that is in fact what it is.... I've no science behind my comments, just 1st hand observations from 35 years of fishing the bay, the Cape and the Islands. I honestly believe we are overfishing everything. The draggers have ruined the sea floor. I saw this 1st hand scuba diving, once flourishing ell grass beds off the Cape are now under water deserts since the draggers hit them for skates and lobster. They never recovered. Cod once so abundant in large sizes are all but a memory. We used to get 35 to 50 pounders all the time, I rarely see keeper fish now. I'm all for making a living and I know too well that given the opportunity to make money, it will come before thoughts of conversation. Our seas are being depleted and a wholesale closure of commercial fishing would not cause me to shed a tear. People lose jobs all the time. Quite often in very large numbers. I clearly recall GM closing the Framingham plant and the impact it had on the employees, their families and the community. Framingham survived and it's prospering, the families survived, moved on as life goes on. The same will hold true as the fishing fleets close up. It will happen at some point. We (people) cannot do what must be done to replenish the fisheries as concession and compromises are always in the way. The stocks continue to fall. GBT, swordfish, cod, flounder, lobster, etc... as examples. Humans have one thing going for them above all else. We adapt..... The commercial sector will have to adapt to a new world. It's sad... I'll grant you that but inevitable. BTW.... I haven't fished a pogie in better than 25 years. They got too hard to find at some point and I switched to lures and yes eels. I'm no better than anyone else. They are available for sale and I use them. Just as the commercial sector has the availability of the fish stocks, they take what is available to them for profit even though they know they are taking too much.... There's no middle ground. The stocks are depleted and we need to shut it down. Cutting back is not the answer. Too little too late. Again, I know full well I am talking from my heart with nothing to back it up. Just observations and opinion. In the end, it is the opinion of the public that will win out. Edit to add: Yes, I quahogged the bay in the 70's and 80's, speared eels through that same period (hundreds of pounds nightly) and fished cod, fluke, striped bass and whatever else I could sell through the late 80's to supplement my income. Injuries forced me to stop.
__________________ I really don't care what you have to say about me, just as long as you mention my name | ||
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02-18-2007, 09:53 AM
| #15 | ||
 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Quincy, Ma.
Posts: 121
| Perhaps its me but I'm always "confused" by one issue when it comes to lobster bait: Every spring, Nova Scotia nets millions of pounds of caplin (a herring-family fish) for the purpose of extracting the roe for the Japanese market. The rest of the fish (and we're talking serious tonnage here) are disposed of in landfills. Why doesn't Ark and other lobster bait suppliers simply send up empty bait barrels and salt to get a free source of bait (only a trucking cost) that is otherwise wasted?...........JC | ||
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02-18-2007, 10:36 AM
| #16 | |||
| Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Blue Planet
Posts: 997
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Quote:
I again appreciate your taking the time to answer my questions and points, you truely are the first guy to do so for me. I have a hard time sometimes seeing the other side because I am so passionate about these topics. It is nice to be able to hear from someone who has been on both sides of the coin, and be candid about the situation at hand. I too am guilty of using baits and tactics that may not align with the best interests of the fish I seek. I try to be as responsible as I can with managem,ent policies I adhere to based on my own take on things, but realize that while I may be well versed and involved on a daily basis with the marine ecosystem, I am often wrong in life, in my opinions, and always should be willing to accept that. I try to give others the same courtesy. Yes, I also agree that public opinion will win out, but in my experience, the just or right thing is usually not factored in to political decisions like this one....one side wins out with improper tactics or propaganda....its a fact of life that just is, but sucks if you ask me. I just want to hear why they want to shut this boat down with some good logical, practical science to back it up. I would be the first stop using them. I have said that all along, if we really want to help the fisheries, we need to make drastic changes, and now. We are one in that thought, B2. I would have no problem being a charter guide who took recreational, hobby fisherman out for an enjoyable day of C&R, while maybe having smart management and allowing the take of some species, like say bergalls for instance, if they are in abundance at that time. The problem is, an awful lot of rec anglers want to eat there catch, and I can't blame them, but it is a bigf reason alot of guys do charters.... I firmly believe that we could learn from the Chinese, who have been raising farmed fish for over a millenium now, and the new aqua culture procedures available elsewhere as well..... We stopped being foragers long ago, when we realized harvesting indigenous plants and berries wasn't gonna sustain us. We stopped the commercial harvest of wild game in large scales, because we realized it wouldn't cut it....we also decimated entire stocks of many other tasty critters on land, but we are curbing that better and better here, although bush meat abroad is still rampant.... My point being I agree we need to stop harvesting the ocean like its a undepleteable resource..... But this fish grab by the rec sector is that and nothing more..... B2, at least your following your heart, as opposed to being spoon fed your ideals by a trumped up media or special interest group.
__________________ CAPT. DOM PETRARCA COASTAL CHARTERS SPORTFISHING NEWPORT, RI (401)-862-0358 www.coastalcharterssportfishing.com | |||
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02-18-2007, 10:43 AM
| #17 | |||
| Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Blue Planet
Posts: 997
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They also are forced to use many other things, like racks from cut houses, skates, bluefish, etc. This again goes to supply and demand, profit ratios, and viability of the actual lobster fishery itself....The shipping costs and other factors would make it cost [prohibitive in Canada, not to mention it would also have to be dried and pressed into pucks of some sort, as I believe they also take the oil and scale chuff from those Capelin, but I could be wrong... sometimes it would cost these guys to bury the pots and actually tend them...thus why you see such increased activity around the times the bugs will be popping. They have had to completely re adjust the way they fish, and it is almost impossible to make a living anymore. To take away the one thing(salted pogies from Ark) that actually produces well in the traps with limited loss and good soaking times would just kill alot of baymen and near shore boats that don't fish the shelf. I know this fishery has been killed from overfishing as well, but lobsters are like the cockroaches of the ocean, they multiply and divide quickly! PS so do pogies. They grow amazingly quickly. Look at what the reduction measures in Jersey have done in 4 years. They still have bait boats there, though.
__________________ CAPT. DOM PETRARCA COASTAL CHARTERS SPORTFISHING NEWPORT, RI (401)-862-0358 www.coastalcharterssportfishing.com | |||
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02-18-2007, 10:54 AM
| #18 | ||
| Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Blue Planet
Posts: 997
| PS, Thanks GP, B2, Formula, and JC for getting this topic some views and some dialogue.... 
__________________ CAPT. DOM PETRARCA COASTAL CHARTERS SPORTFISHING NEWPORT, RI (401)-862-0358 www.coastalcharterssportfishing.com | ||
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02-18-2007, 10:59 AM
| #19 | ||
| NBS Member  Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: RI
Posts: 210
| I see your point that by snagging pogy for bait is taking the same fish that this would supposedly protect but on a very small scale. I am curious how much of the bait goes to the bait shops for rec. fisherman and how much is used by lobsterman. I remember in the 70's we had some pots and would fill bait barrels each spring. We took unbelievable amounts of herring from the local rivers. Do you remember when you could go to Hamilton, Featherbed Lane, Gilbert Stuart, etc. and just net them like crazy. We took far more bait for the pots than I ever take for livelining. I saw some guys in Wickford this summer taking buckets of pogy. They snagged about 3 - 4 5gal buckets and took them away. I asked if they were going to keep the alive to liveline and they said "why". There was no way they were going to use all that bait that day. I actually use skipjack blues from the harbor as bait also. It is pretty resilient and readily available. | ||
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02-18-2007, 04:58 PM
| #20 | |||
| Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Blue Planet
Posts: 997
| Quote:
The indicator I see as why the menhaden stocks are rebounding here in New England is that we are at the far northern range of their habitat. The edges of a fish stocks range always lose the fish first, then it works inwards towards their central habitat, like a shrinking circle effect.... I know that the Merrimack had pogies last year for the first time in a long while...... Its just like I feel with the swordfishery, in that they haven't shown up inshore yet. That would indicate to me they are back strong..... The longlines have been out a while , and the swordies are coming back. I don't like the move to increase the limits so soon, and I would like a bit of length added to the minimum size to echo the science(47" lower fork) which suggests a much higher limit to achieve stock rebuild. I still believe ICCAT est. is 58% or so, based on 1996 study?? The quota has not been filled for a while now, and fears are that we could lose a big percentage to other nations which could catch them....but thats another thread....hmmm, good idea.... I just want good science behind the conservation measures....I'm not against conservation obviously, just the current methodology....
__________________ CAPT. DOM PETRARCA COASTAL CHARTERS SPORTFISHING NEWPORT, RI (401)-862-0358 www.coastalcharterssportfishing.com | |||
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