Am I Doing Something Dangerous - Page 2

Scup · 02-25-2008, 08:40 AM

Capt Walrip, I think we may be on a different page. See the enclosed sketch of what I am planning to do:
Believe me when I say my bow eye is the strongest fitting on my boat. I do not have a cleat on my ride as it would interfere with my nets. Ever try to throw a cast net while standing on a thwart of a 16 foot ride with cleats all over the place. I know the words "gill net" strikes fear into the heart of just about every one in this form, but you do not want cleats on a ride that is going to be used to haul a gill net either. The use of below deck cleats is a great option, but there is no practical way of doing it on my ride as its construction is just too flimsy to make it practical. In addition, my boat does not even have a side deck where the through deck hardware would normally be mounted.

Bob & Mag · 02-25-2008, 08:50 AM

If I'm understanding you, you want to be able to disconnect and leave the anchor, to return and hookup again. If so that rig will work. I ran my duckboats and layout boats in a similar manner. The stopper will keep from losing the anchor retrieval setup and a quick clip back to the boat hooks you to the bottom again.

Scup · 02-25-2008, 11:26 AM

Bob and Mag,

You understand exactly what I intend to do. The form members convinced me it is too easy to get into trouble by trying to ride up over your own anchor by yourself when you plan to leave for the day. It seems everyone thought a retrieval ball float was the simplest way to go and their arguments made sense to me. Unless some member points out something really wrong with the shown setup, this is what I plan on using the next time I go out to where the current can really move. I like this form very much, as we can bounce ideas off each another until a decent solution can be arrived at. It is really great to be able to pick the brains of charter boat captains with all their years of experience.

Bryan A. · 02-25-2008, 02:32 PM

The only problem I can see would be unhooking when there is pressure on the clip from the tide. Other than that it should work.

If you use the split type retrieval ring on the ball it is easily removed off the anchor rode. My fear would be someone stealing it if you left it over night or even for a tide. The float would look like a lobster pot but the ball would be a big take me sign. Just a thought.

Bob & Mag · 02-25-2008, 02:44 PM

Good point. I wouldn't leave an anchor ball out all night or it'll be gone...maybe use a lobster pot bouy to mark the line. Take the ball home and use it just to pull the anchor up.
It will come off the anchor rode with a clip like you plan on using on the bow.

Scup · 02-25-2008, 05:46 PM

There is no way I would leave the ball there overnight, they cost too much. Since there will be no tension on the ball because of the slide ring, I could un-clip it and attach a large old lobster buoy in its place. Losing lobster and scup pots at Latimer's Reef is nothing new to anyone in the business. Everyone loses stuff at Latimer's. When the tide rips even LADY LYNN cannot find their gear because a combination of current, seaweed, and anything else a dragger might have busted off the bottom gets caught on the pot's rode and down she goes. Even heavy pots seem to have a mind of their own as they walk all over the place. When the tide slows, the buoys start to rise to the surface. Probably everyone in this form has driven over a partially submerged buoy. Many get so teed off at becoming afoul of a lobster pot that you cannot even see, they simply cut the hell out of the tackle. I lost too much gear at Latimer's Reef so I just go out with a couple of pots, watch them like mother hen watches her chicks, and then return with them. I drop them off in a non current area at Lord's point for safe keeping so they will be always visible but even then, there are some who just do not look where they are going. I lose stuff at Lord's point too, but nothing like at Latimer's. What probably happens is someone catches a scup pot because they were not looking where they were going or it was evening. The pot is so light, they can tow it for miles without even knowing it. When they finally realized they are dragging something, they either cut it off, or untangle it and try to drop it back down safely. Either way, it is very unlikely I will ever see that pot again. I do not think theft plays much of a role in the lost of my tackle (scup pots) as only commercial guys would want them. Lobster pots, however, are another story.

Bob & Mag · 02-25-2008, 08:14 PM

Scup, do you have any pictures of your fish pots? I'd love to see what they look like. I've read your writing about them and can picture them in my mind, but that may be all wrong. LOL
Thanks

Scup · 02-26-2008, 01:30 AM

Bob and Mag,

Just need to charge up my digital camera's batteries; should have them out by tomorrow. There is not too much difference in what the commercial guys use. Some have two entrances, but most like me have four. Almost all use a two foot cube. Some cubes even have a separate holding parlor but where I set them there is always a spider crab problem, hence traps with complicated holding parlors become a bear to get the crabs out. I have no use for complicated fish pots. The only real difference that I see is the gage of the wire mesh used. The heavier pots use 12 gage while the lighter use 14 gage. There have been several articles written as to which gage catches better, and the lighter gage won out. However, if one would go any lighter than 14 gage, the pot would lack structural strength. A 14 gage scup pot, even with weights, is lighter than a small lobster pot. I always picked out junked old zincs from the West Marine trash bucket and recycle them to my pots. Pots, even of the lighter gage, usually get lost before they corrode away if protected by zincs. I will also include a picture of an "S" trap. These are rather large traps of a more complex design that have raised controversy in their use. Some pot fisherman swear by them, others swear at them. I tried them just for a short period since I was told they can take summer flounder. Found that to be a tall story. They do catch scup like crazy, but they do even a better job of catching spider crabs. An "S" pot with weights might go 35 to 40 pounds empty. However, since it can catch several hundred spider crabs overnight, the trap can end up weighting well over a hundred pounds in air, too much to even get it aboard without a hauler. Too many times I found myself reaching over the side (as I could not get it into the boat) to pin the doors open (lost all the scup in it) so the spider crabs can walk out of it after I dropped it back down. Found these "S" traps to be a real waste of bait so I gave up on them. However, if dropped where the scup are swarming, there is no doubt they have the potential to catch fifty pounds of scup in an hour. The one type of pot that I cannot show you is one that will take summer flounder. Sometimes a lobster pot will take a fluke or two, but for the most part fluke just do not go into pots. That fluke will not go into pots has always put me at odds with the rest of the commercial industry. Fluke are a very aggressive fish and I believe one should be able to get them in pots. However, all of the traps in common use do not work well at all. Most pot fishermen have given up on taking fluke in pots. I have been trying to invent a pot for years that will take fluke, but without luck. Still I am sort of hardheaded, and have not given up yet. Should I figure out one that works, I would not even put a patent on it. A workable fluke pot just might be one way to drive a nail into the coffin of what has to become the final demise of wasteful drag operations.

Scup · 02-26-2008, 10:01 PM

Sorry, Bob and Mag

By the time I got my camera batteries charged, it was raining like crazy. The rain will not bother me, but I am not too sure about my digital camera. I will get you the photos tomorrow. There is an interesting web sight that concerns itself with trapping fish. Do a Google search with the following words:
"FAO Fishing with Traps and Pots". There must be hundreds of government publications at this site, but the above Google search will bring up the correct site at the top of the list. It is an interesting government training manual.

Scup · 02-27-2008, 08:53 AM

Bob & Mag,

Here are the photos you wanted to see: The first photo is a standard 2 foot cube. It has four entrances on each side at the bottom. Some use only two entrances and drop their pots such that the entrances align themselves with the current. The third photo is a close up of half an entrance. It is a very simple affair formed by bending the wire mesh slightly inward. A rule of thumb (or in this case a rule of hand) is you would adjust the opening such that a normal sized man's hand (open palm) would just fit through the opening. If you cannot fit your hand through, you will miss the Joes (Jumbo dinner plate sized fish that usually carry a premium market price). If your hand fits in too loosely, you are giving the large and medium sized scup too good of a chance to escape and they make up the majority of your catch. The second photo is what is called a "S" trap although I do not know why. To me it appears to be more of figure "8". That diamond shaped affair you see in the middle is the bait box. I can bait up seven cubes with a 4 gallon pail of clam snot. At best, I can only bait up three of the "S" pots with 4 gallons and that is with skimping. These "S" pots are real bait hogs and as the photos shows there are some of the remains of the last hauls unwanted visitors. The last photo is a top view of the "S" pot. The fish go for the bait and swim between the bait box and the wire mesh. They can move to the left or right of the bait box from either side, hence it is a very decent pot with four entrances. The pot, however, is a killer to use when there are spider crabs about which is just about everywhere. I have almost given up trying to make the "S" pot work. I am thinking about adding four legs to it so it sits about two feet off the bottom like an offshore drilling station. That will stop the crabs from getting in, although it just might stop the scup as well since they are mostly bottom feeders. I will give it one more try this season

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